Hi Aaron,
Thank you for your input.At my age, I tend to stay away from stores due to the virus. I did buy my Roland accordions on line. There was no instrument to sample in my state. I relied on many strong recommendations, and it worked out well. I did sample my latest Bugari Evo, just before the pandemic. The inside electronics is made by Roland, and some of the sounds are good. So, I tend to view Roland in a positive light.
I took hours to look at electronic pianos (88 weighted keys with midi and headphone). I looked at stores, user forums and the end of the day I find myself watching a YouTube video comparing 3 candidates: Roland FP-90X, Yamaha P515, Kawai ES920. It is not the most important decision; I will play it only sometimes at night.
The Yamaha seem very attractive, and the sound will probably best approximate my Busendorfer, but I read that “there is Bluetooth connectivity with the P-515, however, it doesn’t allow you to send MIDI data from your DAWs”. I need to verify it. I will look into Bluetooth connectivity on the Roland and Kawai. I will not even bring up all the keyboards’ comparisons.
Listening to MIDI on the electronic piano is much better than a tablet. I also want to slow the music down. One way would be to import written notation and just edit the playback tempo values there, but such software will need to convert the notation to MIDI for playback. It would be nicer to have the operation done directly on the midi file. Does anyone have suggestions for a software solution?
Aaron, thank you again for your response. Your comment about Bluetooth is most helpful. I realize that the post is mostly about technical questions, that will change soon (I am going to buy a piano and deal with MIDI software later).
Meanwhile, I am making some progress. I find the sequence of the jazz basics course very well thought out, helpful and fun.
@dan5 I can certainly understand. Those are three great choices so it will probably come down to the one that works best with your preferred set up. I don’t know much about working with midi files internally (I believe the FP-90x imports midi files via a usb drive but I have not tried it yet) but I am sure someone can help you on the Piano World forum. There seem to be many experienced players there and they love to discuss the tech stuff. Let us know what you decide to purchase!
There are so many choices for digital keyboards these days; as Aaron says, a lot of the choice comes down to a subjective decision by the player regarding action, sounds, and user interface.
To help narrow your choices, I suggest you think about whether (or not) you want the ability to play a wide variety of additional sounds, i.e. organ, electric piano, synthesizers, etc, whether you want a keyboard that can be moved around on a stand (a “stage piano”) vs. one that looks more like a piece of furniture and is not intended to be moved around much, and whether you want the ability to play through speakers at all (and if so, whether you want them integrated into the piano). Also think about priorities with regard to the things I mentioned–quality of the action (how close is it to a good grand piano action), quality and realism of the piano sound, and ease of use.
Regarding your comments/questions about midi–it’s certainly possible to import midi tracks into a DP and then ask the instrument to play it back at different tempos and with different sounds, but that set of tasks is the bread and butter of a DAW (digital audio workstation), so what you’re really asking for is a digital piano that has an onboard DAW, sometimes referred to as a “keyboard workstation”. I’m not sure any of the choices you mentioned (which are all great) would fit the bill, and most keyboard workstations (like Roland FANTOM or Jupiter lines) are intended for performance and have many more features than you need.
A better choice, in my opinion, is to keep the DAW part of the equation on a tablet or a computer, and focus on other features of the piano (action, onboard sounds). If you’re a Mac guy, Garageband is free and will run on an ipad or a Macbook, is fairly easy to learn, and will do exactly what you’re asking.
Once you’ve decided on your priorities, you may want to consider posting your question on pianoworld (forum.pianoworld.com) where you will get a myriad of extremely well-informed answers!
When you slow recorded audio way down, both piano and voice talking pitch goes lower as well. Listen to a lesson in X.25 speed…
The audio needs to be processed to the correct pitch. That takes a DAW with lot of processing, and the results at slow speeds are not impressive.
Midi, however, is for the most part a “note on” and “note off” structure. Yes, it offers patch, key velocity and more. One (or 2?) such byte is a tempo value. That is what you can see on the music notation. I think if I change the tempo on the music sheet , and use a “notation to midi converter” it may work. Of course MIDI can not handle voice or audio, but the simplicity can be helpful here, I hope.
I am just looking into it.
I was surprised to find out how difficult it is to find an 88 weighted key upper end electronic piano. A lot of stores show many piano on the web, but many are out of stock. It may be partly because electric pianos are a good thing during a pandemic, and when the unit got sold, the semiconductor shortage prevents from replenishing the supply.
I did find a Roland FP90X.
I am looking for an electronic piano, 88 weighted keys, with midi input, The main objective is to practice using headphones at night, but also having some speakers for practicing during lessons (for listening both to the lesson (tablet/computer) and to the piano.
Apart from all the other great suggestions you’ve received, I’d like to suggest taking a look at a Casio. I know that it’s been considered a toy by some, but they have come a long way in creating an affordable keyboard that has all you mention above, as well as bluetooth/MIDI connections.
I now have a Roland RD-2000, but when I startedwith PianoGroove, my first keyboard was an earlier iteration of the Casio keyboards. Have a listen to the new PX-S6000.
My Casio had a great feel, and, appparently, they’ve upped their game and created even finer weigthed keys. Ruslan Sirota (check him out on YouTube) uses a Casio keyboard at home.
Following is a link to the Casio PX-S6000BK page. The keyboard will be available in November.
And if you want to see it compared to other premium digital keyboards, you might want to check out PianoManChuck’s offering here.
I’ll close by offering a personal note. I love the RD-2000. I can’t imagine any keyboard being more fun to play. But if I had known more about VSTs–virtual pianos and how they work–I would never have bought the more expensive keyboard. The Casio was also a joy to play. Prices have changed. But I got the Casio for less than $1,000. I now use the Vienna Symphonic Library Synchron (Steinway) D-274 with the RD-2000. That’s to say, the Roland is now an expensive MIDI controller. The Casio would have been just as effective as the Roland in producing the sounds I use today.
At any rate, I hope this helps you and anyone else.
Hi Scott,
Thank you for your comments. I already ordered the Roland FP90X. I considered the Kawai (lighter weight), but I could not find any. I looked at a lot of internet stores as well as reviews, YouTube and piano forums. I read the specs of many instruments, and quickly realized that 88 wood keys (not the Kawai) plus the speakers is pretty heavy for me. So, I will have it stationary, and weight is less of an issue. At this point, it was between Yamaha P515 and Roland FP90X. I have good experiences with both companies.
At my old age every day is a gift. And these days, a promised release date is often just a wishful thinking. I could reserve one, with no commitment to a delivery date. I just bought one they had in stock. I am sure that it will not compete with my Bosendorfer grand, but that is O.K. I will use it for playing at night, and for interaction with music software.
Years ago, I had a Roland piano 88 keys RD midi controller, the keys felt light, and synth piano sounds (gear from many companies) did not sound great, but it fine for me as a hobby. I saw a lot of progress in Roland electronic accordions, my latest Roland accordion piano sounds (FR8X and Bugari Evo) are much improved. In Roland FP90X and FP60X manuals, some piano sounds are marked (*) to indicate the latest Roland piano sound generation. It is different then all the other manufacturers.
The Yamaha P515 was a close second. I was told that it can accept BlueTooth MIDI with MBT01 adopter, around $50 small attachment to plug into the MIDI in and MIDI out connectors. That will work on Apple but not Android or PC. The FP90X should operate BlueTooth MIDI.
I will find out more in a few days. I will be able to play when my wife is asleep, and when I do repetitive exercise. I think electronic pianos with headphones can solve a lot of issues.
Hi again,
This is “what is your piano model” thread. I have no skin in the game, I am not selling pianos, I was a buyer. The suggestion to go to a dealer is the best, in normal times. I saved a lot of time and fuel by email and many phone calls. The inventory of the items I looked for was mostly depleted. Almost all the outlets will take orders, with no delivery date assurances.
A new desired product may or may not be “just around the corner”. I am not betting on it happening soon. There is a semiconductor shortage and it will take years to deal with. If one wants to upgrade, timing becomes a factor to consider. emphasized text
My Roland FP90X arrived. It was easy to connect to an Android tablet via Bluetooth audio. Also, I put a Midi file on a memory- stick and plugged it into the piano USB terminal. The piano allows me to play the music at different speed. The playback responds to the metronome speed settings. That allows me to observe, or play along with a Midi song.
I don’t know if this is a good teaching tool, it certainly does not challenge my finger speed. A professional orchestral musician friend told me that she always gets ready for rehearsal by playing slow, then faster and faster.
The main goal was to be able to use headphones at night. Now I can take lessons at night, looking at the tablet while listening to piano headphones. It is so much better then listening to the tablet…
I am still dealing with “Jazz basics” and learning some fundamentals. Some of the voice comments are real eye opener to me. I am very pleased with the lessons.
Congrats on the new FP-90X, @dan5. It’s a good looking instrument. How’s the feel & sound?
Re playing slow: Leah Murphy of Le Chéile Music recommends that you “play at the speed of no mistakes.” Good Advice. I have to constantly remind myself to slow down.
I play a top quality acoustic grand, and will continue to do so most of the time. But the Roland FP90X is much better then I expected, and it serves its purpose. The action feels fine. The “concert piano” is fine. I like the “concert grand”. I tried all the other sounds including dual play, split and more, but only need a piano.
There is is 3 bend equalizer on board. (For solo piano, I think it It is best when all 3 slides are not too far from the middle.)
I opted for the “home style” setup, less portable but both steadier and it has the 3 peddles.
The “Bluetooth audio” works with my tablet. I can use it for the lessons. I think that “Bluetooth midi” has to be a part of an android app (not sure).
If playing slow enough to avoid mistakes is a goal, I may have to give up -
The key here is to find a way overcome the inevitable frustration attendant with learning to play piano. It’s a complex and difficult task, but the challenge should also be filled with little wins to keep you moving on.
I am not new to music, but very new to jazz. I have been following the lessons in the sequence presented. I am sure the recommendations are good, but I wonder why you recommended me the additional material. I will check out the lessons you pointed out.
According to Stefan Colber, Giuliani said: “I don’t practice law, I practice jazz law”. I thought it was really funny. His jazz is terrible. He does the fifth all the time -
Nice to hear the Roland worked out. I really enjoy sitting down at mine and playing every day. I just started experimenting with the bluetooth midi by paring it to my MacBook and triggering some software instruments. I am surprised how minimal the delay is. I do notice it but it is an acceptable level though I will get a midi cable as I’m sure it will be even more seamless. I believe the bluetooth midi is only transmitted out of the FP-90x and you still need to bring in external midi files the way you are currently doing but I could be wrong.
I really enjoy playing NI’s “Noire” piano but would like to purchase a nice Steinway and Bösendorfer sample set in the future. The libraries are fairly pricey though so back to watching hours of youtube demos for me until I can make a decision.
I have been working my way through Pianogroove content for about 5 months now and haven’t posted anything to the community. So, this looked like a good place to start. I played the piano for many years (mostly classical and sight-reading). When my son really got interested in piano and showed a lot of talent, I let him take my digital piano at the time and with some of my other hobbies piano died out for about 15 years. When COVID started up, I thought I really wanted to get back into focusing on piano again and had also gotten a lot of interest in the digital side of music production. So, I decided to treat myself to something I planned to make a regular part of my life for many years to come. I also wanted to take more of a theory/improv approach this time around. Here is my Nord Stage 3 hooked up to Yamaha monitors. I also added a touch screen monitor figuring I could make good use of that In addition to using the display to follow through Pianogroove content, I also like to transcribe scores digitally because I can use them as backing, being able to alter tempo for practice, etc. Two years back into my piano journey and I am still loving my setup and playing regularly. Glad to meet you all – 5 months later.
I use “Bluetooth audio” for the lessons from the Android tablet to drive the piano. It works well.
Also, I can write music notation on my Windows, and hear the piano play each note as I enter it. The piano response to the Tablet and the computer works well. I don’t know the amount of latency (delay). It does not seem to be a factor for my present needs. (Bluetooth latency
may be an issue for some setups).
I have not figured out how to use the “Bluetooth Midi” and the piano. So far, I can transfer Midi (to and from the piano) with the help of a memory stick. I have not been able to pair my computer or tablet for “Bluetooth Midi”. It is all new to me, but it seems like the “Bluetooth audio” connects the piano to the computer/tablet, but the Bluetooth Midi” is “not found”. I may be that it is only works with specific software.
I don’t know the inside working of “Bluetooth audio” but it does take care of my limited needs. It would be nice to hear how to play the piano wirelessly into a computer file. At this point, I was not able to pair “Bluetooth Midi” to anything. I am still learning stuff, but the “Bluetooth audio” seems to take care of my needs for now.
Are you using “Bluetooth Midi”? If so, with what hardware and software?
Hi Dan,
I am Mac based so I had to first configure the midi within the Mac OS in audio/midi - midi studio. Once that was configured, I simply had to use the blue tooth pairing function on the FP-90x and my MacBook was able to recognize it. Now it shows up as a midi input device in whatever program I use. Currently I am using the NI Kontakt player to play their Granduer and Noire pianos. I suspect you will have to do something similar in your particular OS.
