Hello
I see this 5 minutes master class but dont understand at all what this theory implicates
i fully understand the concept of interval that are like planets around a center that attract it
but dont understand at all how this could help us in melody line
Neither dont understand the relation to 251 , even i understand the attraction to the 1 and other 251 to other chords of the diatonic 1 , but what the relation with vectors ??? and how use this ???
If you could explain it a bit more … very curious about it
the name already a poem and sound cool , but if it can help our playing it will be even better
for me, I think he is just presenting another way to SEE the intervals rather than just an upward linear 1 thru 7 plus additions 9, 11, 13 which doesn’t change what you could do with them.
I have a hard time remembering that the 11 is a 4 and that the 13 is a 6… mostly because of the mental image of it all being linear and upward from the 1… so for me this helped me a bit; the intervals are the same, just the mental image is enhanced.
I noticed when listening to some of Jovino’s recent masterclasses that he stimulates our imagination, and then leaves lots for us to explore and discover ourselves.
It’s certainly formed an intriguing topic for discussion here.
Yes that’s an important point that I took away too Lori .
Here’s how I interpret the harmonic relation to the 251…
In terms of C Major, the roots of the chords spell out #4-7-3-6-2-5-1 which is every note in the C Lydian Mode. I look at this as an extension of the 251, moving as far away as possible whilst still remaining in the scale.
Jovino also plays many different alterations and tensions over the chords which create some interesting colours and textures:
#4 = F#-7b5
7 = B7alt
3 = E-7b5
6 = A7alt
2 = D-7
5 = G7
1 = Cmaj7 (but instead of going to Imaj7, Jovino goes to G-7 / C7 and then back to F#-7b5 to repeat the cycle)
Extending a basic 251
We could use this chain of chords to extend any 251 and create a more interesting harmonic progression. The same could apply to improvising over a 251.
However, I think there is still a piece of the puzzle that I am missing.
I’ve been pondering it myself…
By moving past the #4, we would then be at the 5, which takes us back to 1 if it’s dominant - and that 5th is also the 4th below. And so in that sense, the #4 is the furthest point or interval whilst remaining in the C Major tonality.
I’m still thinking over this interesting concept
I will email Jovino for his insight on the matter…
I know Jovino has a busy schedule performing and teaching, but I’m sure he will be happy to shed some more light on this theory for us - I will email him now and share his response here.
I’m truly enjoying Jovino’s masterclasses. They’re fascinating. His ideas about scales versus triads (sort of sterile, linear vs. musical and harmonic) are something that I’ve been noticing, but I don’t have sufficient understanding of theory to explain. I’ve always thought that running mile a minute scales all over the register was kind of boring after a very short time. Kind of like those 30 minutes drum solos at rock concerts all those years ago.
He notes that complex chord extensions can be seen as more or less what seems to be triad combining. Seems to make sense. For example, I continually stumbled over the Ab9 in bar 15 of the “Tenderly” transcription until the other day I saw it as an Ab voiced in the left hand with a root-5-7 and a Bmaj7 in the right. Now I get it every time. So, I can see what he’s getting at, though I need to work on understanding it better. Wish I could find something like that for all the other places I stumble.
Also, another thing I noticed is about stacking triads with the circle of fifths, which is probably well known to all. To get all your chord extensions (7, 9, 11, 13) for any given chord. Start with the, say Bb. Stack the root triad of it and the next two going up the circle—adding F and C—and you have all your extensions. Notes now, count later
At any rate, a big thanks to Jovino for his masterclasses. I look forward to the next ones.
That’s great to hear you’re enjoying Jovino’s masterclasses Scott.
I agree with your point about improvising by just running up and down scales, it can sound very sterile and mechanical. Whereas triads create such interesting intervals and patterns as Jovino demonstrates in his masterclasses.
@pierre - I have passed your questions onto @Jovino and he has offered to join the forum area and share some ideas with us all.
Thanks everyone for your thoughtful remarks on this subject of non-linear concepts. I understand that it can be daunting sometimes to think away from the established theoretical concepts, but it’s all a matter of practice, teaching your ears and your fingers to find simple gestures that yield good sounding results. For me, based on what I was taught by my mentor Hermeto Pascoal, the idea of using simple tridas as building blocks for complex harmonic structures makes sense - not linear sense, but musical sense.
Just to be clear - this does not mean that musical theory is wrong - it is a useful tool for analyzing and dissecting music, but it is impossible to be thinking about those long linear concepts while you are improvising in real time. That’s when the intuitive side should take over, so you are playing from a place of fast reflex and intuitive discovery rather than a place of analysis and linear thought. To everything there is a time… Thanks again to all who have commented and happy holidays! Jovino
In fact id like to get away from theory but i dont understand what you are trying to present (and i’m quite sure i’m not alone) about this orbital vectors concept .
Could you explain it a bit much more deeper ?
We are so grateful to have you on our site and that you come here on the forum .
Wow, just watched this Orbital Vector master class and I’m blown away. I’m a very visual person and so it’s been hard at times for me to step out of linear voicings since I LOVE seeing them all laid out (one of the reasons I picked piano as my instrument rather than guitar), but this video really helped me to break out of my box. I think it will take some time for me to really apply it to my playing, improvisation in particular. I’m going to work thru those wonderful voicings on that turn around very, very slowly for a few days, with this concept in mind. Hope that will plant it deeper, but just from that video I had one of those expansive moments, when imagining the interval notes as planets orbiting around the tonal center - the sun - something clicked… it brought the keys from 2D to 3D. Not that this makes sense when I try to explain:) but I’m Very thankful to be introduced to new and expanded perspective.
From bottom to top, we have the shell of A7 in our left hand (Root and b7) and our right hand plays 3 (C#), #5 (F), b7 (G), and #9 (C )
The voice leading is interesting to notice:
the natural 9th over the E-9b5 (F#), falls by half a step to become the #5 of the A7 (F).
the b5 of the E-9b5 (A#/Bb) moves up by a whole step to become the #9 of the A7 (C )
and the guide tones (b3/b7) do their usual thing with the b7 of E-9b5 (D) falling by half a step to become the major 3rd of A7 (C#)
This is one of the things that fascinates me about harmony, everything is so close, usually just half and whole steps to achieve whatever colour/texture you desire.
(love how he manipulates all those colors 
)
